I’m writing some World War 2 rules. Various people at TMP have commented on ideas and helped out. Now I’m throwing the PARTIAL rules open for comment.
*** UPDATE 13 April***
The chap at ‘Free Wargames Rules’ has been overly pro-active, and published a link. Please remember these are partial- please comment.
Also READ THE THREAD- you will find some questions answered in the post.
***UPDATE 2 May
Newest version- Note change in how cover is handled.
Also crewed weapons and platoon mortars added. There is now enough to play a Company game. Just started adding Vehicles (and the rules have aquired a name- ‘Blood, Sweat and Tears’
*** Update ends***
world-war-two-rules (latest: 23:55 2 May 09)
An unusual feature is ‘Delayed Hit resolution’, where by shots are marked, but not resolved until the unit tries to act.
There are no Close Combat (melee) or recover from Pin/Suppress rules as yet (see end of thread). Army lists to TEST the rules with are at the end- I know that they need work.
Just realised I’ve forgotten Oppotunity fire rules. Basically and Unactivated unit may ‘interupt’ enemy movement in LoS to fire, but must activate itself, ie resolve Fire Markers.
(As per usual, I retain copyright- They are made available to you free to use for personal enjoyment etc)
Thanks a lot! Last Hussar, I’ve been following the thread on TMP and found it very interesting.
So I’ve downloaded the rules to read tomorrow, can’t wait!
Cheers,Dave
Right I’m up to page 7 and have a query in one of the Movement examples
In the Movement example for Type C.
Although you say the MG is in command, in the diagram it looks to be out of command, due to the distance?
So if it IS in command, it must wait for ’1′ and ’2′ to move and cannot move on its own? (I think that’s right) so, for instance you couldn’t just move the MG to right flanking (the other side) without also moving ’1′ and ’2′? (sorry about this, hope this is not too confused)
Maybe the diagram for Type C needs the MG moving closer to ’1′ and ’2′ to make it clearer, or am I just confused?!?
Another query on page 8.
Is the range of SMGs 30cm? (short range)
#2- Sorry- my cock up. When imported into Open Office for the PDF conversion the Word Text Boxes got moved about, and I didn’t get them in the right order- the last two got swapped over. I have (I hope) put a correct version up now
#3 – Yes SMG may ONLY fire short range- 30cm, or 15 if moving. It’s a bit generous, but I kept the 30cm to keep everything the same. If you want too, ‘House Rule’ of 15cm and 7cm.
Cheers, they were just clarifications really.
By the way I really like these rules, they’ve got me thinking with their different, elegant emphasis.
In the army lists the only thing I prefer is just 2 stands for most sections (normally a gun group and a rifle group)with the likes of the US and German paras having 3 stands. But that’s just me, as I like to get over a company a side on the table, and it’s horses for courses.
Anyway, thanks once again for the intersting rules and download.
Cheers, RM
Ross I wrote a set 20 years ago with the basic base being the Rifle Group on 2″ x 1″, and MGs being called a half group on an inch square, and US using 3 half groups of rifles. Half groups were more fragile than Groups.
This harks back to that by making Brit and German Rifles stay ‘In contact’ with each other- effectively a double base. It means that each base is 3-4 men, and they are compatible with the armies for PBI and Crossfire I have. Because of the ‘In Contact’ requirement I don’t see them being slower that my previous set- you are moving them together anyway.
The problem with this level of wargaming is it often breaks the axiom of ’10-12 units, 2 levels down’- this game a Company, which I feel that could be the ideal for a player who has a little experience with it, is 30 bases (with mortars etc). For the US it could be all 30. The Brits would have 20ish. For the Germans it is 9 units, as they stay together (to reflect the rifle were really there to carry the MG ammo).
Of course, with the movement being limited to just one group per unit/turn, the encouragement is there to keep sections together (can you imagine how slowly a US unit fully broken down would move- only 1 base in 6 moves a turn, because of the Joker!).
NEW RULE
Platoon Leaders.
P/L have second card (if possible the same card in the `sister suit’- e.g. [AC] and [AS])
All P/L are considered to be SMG armed.
When the first activation card comes out the P/L may either
Activate normally, or
Lead subordinates
If the second card comes out it may ONLY use this to activate to Lead. However it may not Lead if it has already used the first card to Lead
If the P/L is going to lead it must first resolve all Fire Markers against it
To `Lead’ one (or more) sections/Bases the Bases must be `In Command’ of the P/L. They may be from different units, but MUST BE subordinate to that P/L- i.e. 2 Platoon leader can not `Lead’ 1 Platoon bases.
All Bases take this as their activation. If they have already activated this turn then they may not activate. They resolve Fire Markers as normal for being activated.
All Bases being lead must conduct the SAME action.
The P/L may also carry out this action. This is the only time he may carry out a second fire or movement action.
All firing units fire at the same base, but the Fire Markers `chain’ along all those in contact as per normal.
All moving bases must end up `In Contact’ with one another.
Not all bases need carry out the action- in this case the carry out no action. They must still resolve Fire Markers.
Bases may carry out the action even if the Base it is in Command via does not. They must still conform to `Type’ (eg Type B rifles must stay together).
e.g. Base 1 is In Command of the P/L. Base 2 is In Command by virtue of being in Contact with Base 1. Base 2 may move even if the P/L and Base 1 take no action.
Recovering from hit effects
To Recover from Pins and Suppresses a base may declare it is Recover. Units that are Recovering have a To Hit number of 5+.
Base Recovery depends on whether it is in Command of its own Platoon Leader.
If it is NOT in Platoon Leader Command:
The Base resolves any Fire Markers. If any of these are a Hit, then the Unit does NOT recover, even if the hit was a Pin, and the unit is Suppressed. Although it is a ‘lesser’ Hit, the unit stays Suppressed.
If the Fire Markers produce a WORSE result, then that worse result applies.
Examples
A Base is Pinned, and since the Pin has acquired another 4 Fire Markers. The To Hit number is 5+. The dice are 1, 2, 5, 5:- 2 Hits. These produce a Pin and a Suppress: The base is now Suppressed, and the Recover is ignored.
A Base is Suppressed, again with 4 Fire Markers. The To Hit number is 5+. The dice are 1, 2, 2, 5:- 1 Hit. This produces a Pin. The base STAYS Suppressed, and the Recover is ignored, because there was a Hit on it, even though it was a ‘Lesser’ hit.
A Base is Suppressed, again with 4 Fire Markers. The To Hit number is 5+. The dice are 1, 2, 2, 5:- 1 Hit. This is re-rolled as a 1- a Miss! The base RECOVERS- there were no hits against it.
If it IS in Platoon Leader Command:
Resolve the Fire Markers as above BUT if the best result is a Pin, and the base is Suppressed, then the status is downgraded to Pinned. However a worse result- a Suppress when the base is Pinned- is still a Suppress.
Examples
A Base is Suppressed, again with 4 Fire Markers and in P/L command. There is 1 Hit. This produces a Pin. The base becomes Pinned, because of the effect of the Platoon Leader.
A Base is Pinned, with 4 Fire Markers, and in P/L command. 2 Hits are thrown. These produce a Pin and a Suppress: The base is now Suppressed, and the Recover is ignored.
Thanks for the explanation, I like that the bases are compatible with PBI and Crossfire as mine are based for PBI too!
So with PL’s if it leads with its first activation, the second activation(card) is ignored?
A suggestion, why not keep the PL at one card but allow him to activate when a units card he is in contact/command with is drawn? Would that be simpler?
I thought of that. What I’m after is the idea that a platoon leader leads, rather than a arbitary bonus for being within a certain distance, and he moves around to acheive this. Because he is self motivated he is more likely to cary out his ‘own’ orders. Poor PLs may have just the one card. I do however consider all suggestions, here and TMP, and may come back to this- this is very much an ‘off the cuff’ answer.
As it stands he can rush up to a unit(s) and get them moving in the same turn. If he starts with them there is a 87% chance of an activation coming up, not a 50%. The chance for a multi unit activation (ie the PL only card, but him moving 2 or more units) is 75% (the chance of both cards being below the joker is 1 in 4).
It sounds good to me, you’ve worked the percentages out, and those are the percentage chances that you want, then it’s all good!
They are the % chances, whether I want them or not. They stem from PLs having 2 cards. How do readers feel- is being able to activate units with platoon leaders almost 9 out of 10 turns too much? (3 oyut of 4 for PL activation of multiple units) It means that where the officers/sergeants are is where the action will probably happen.
Now you could get the whole platoon activated by a PL most turns, but they would all have to be linked to him- this couls be at max a 60cm approx line, or a triangle of approx 18cm ‘radius’. This means
1) you are all in one place, with gaps between platoons, plus as yopu move together this limits flexibility.
2) One pinned base and the platoon attack falls to bits and
3) the ‘Chaining rule’ means lots of bases will get hit once, instead of a few hit multiple times. As results dont stack this means you don’t lose extra pins/suppresses and that more bases could be pinned from one fire attack- a typical section may get 6-8 dice in one fire attack- that’s most of the platoon.
Actually, typing that I’m talking myself into it- any Devils Advocates out there to try and put the bad points?
If PLs are KEY (and the main design influence) to the game, then I don’t think almost 9 out of 10 turns is too much.
If they’re not the main focus, then it could be extra things to remember for not enough result, and a distraction from the main focus of the game. (I’m thinking, maybe the original ‘Soldat’ rules here, where Leadership points were discarded after playtesting)
I like what you are typing as well! I suppose the best way to test having a platoon too concentrated, is to play it through a few times to see the results. As you say bad things should happen to the platoon!
Actually PLs were not the driver- the game started as a 40K conversion for my son! The main design is founded on the delayed hit resolution. However, when it came to officers I had to think what they were there for- I’m vaguely disatisfied with the +1 for officer type rules (eg Fire and Fury). This rule popped into my head and I thought “ooo- interesting”.
A flash of inspiration while in the bath on how to actually recover
Yes, this does mean trying to rally troops can make things worse for them, or even cause Kills. Think of it as the very act of the NCO or officer trying to get his men forward being the thing that breaks a man- being asked to put his head up and act.
This method delays the effects of the Rally becoming known- similar to the effects of fire.
Just been on a Mini break with the kids, it was Great!
Back now though, so are the Pin and Suppression Markers still determined from the Fire Markers in Hit Resolution?
Yes.
Example
Unit comes under fire. Fire Markers placed
First Activation. Unit tries to move, and gets pinned from fire markers placed turn 1
2nd Activation. Unit Recovers- successfully- so replaces Pin marker with 2 Fire Markers
3rd Activation. Unit resolves the 2 fire markers (plus any other fire markers acquired since second activation) upon activation.
Recover from Pin/Suppress (precis).
Base declares recover- Hit on 5+
If no further hits them replace Suppressions with 4 Fire markers, Pins with 2. Base turn ends- clear fire markers as usual on next activation
Close Combat Precis
If bases come in Contact with enemy base, after oppo fire place CC markers- these are same as Fire- Rifles/SMG use close range value, all others Long range value. Split among those bases in contact
Next time any base in CC activates, all in that CC resolve Fire Markers at 3+ (if one in that CC is in another CC, resolve that, and so on). In this case results stack 2 Pins=Suppress, 2 Suppress=Kill NB the Supp from gettin a kill doesn’t stack.